SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Would you consider this emotional cheating?
About a month ago I found out that my husband who is in his 30s had been messaging a 19 year old for around 2–3 weeks pretty much all day and throughout the night too whilst I was asleep.
They met on a group holiday (I didn’t attend) and the messaging started after they got home from there, my husband was the one who started the messaging.
The messages turned flirty and he said things like "I am staying up later to talk to you" and "you are fun to talk to" and also asking for photos of her in her underwear (she didn’t end up sending any) my husband also sent photos of our child to her and photos of his work. There were other things said too.
Whilst the messaging was going on they actually ended up meeting up again with friends but my husband didn’t tell me she was going to be there (the others are men, she was the girlfriend of one of the other boys) hence why I didn’t attend as the meet ups are normally just men.
My husband denied most of it to begin with and I had to find out the truth from the 19 year old in the end and then he admitted to 90% of it.
The girl said he made her feel listened to and cared for.

Thank you for any responses or help!

Yes he’s cheating. Yes it’s an affair.

Yes he’s lied to you (lying by omission is lying).

Asking for pics in her underwear? Yes that is cheating too.

Dies your H know that you know all of this?

Yes he does know I know, I found some of the messages as he fell asleep with them open on his phone so when I went to put his tea down next to him I saw them open on his phone, I then asked him about it and he lied to me 4 times trying to minimise it, he said "I wouldn’t be talking to a child" as she is only 19. I had to find out the truth from the 19 year old and then he admitted to 90% of it but I fear I still don’t know the full truth.

Definitely emotional affair.
This is what my husband’s affair partner said about what she feels about my husband.
Here:
With him, I found a part of myself that I thought I had lost. I could laugh like a little child, be silly, be vulnerable, and simply be myself. But I also understand that however genuine my feelings may be, they do not give me the right to interfere with the life and love you share.
I am not going to pretend that my feelings were insignificant, because they weren't. I truly love and care for him.

It freaking broke my heart because this is what I used to be and this is how special my husband made me feel when we were dating. It’s so disappointing.

Right now you have zero ability to trust him b/c he only admitted to things you could prove.

I’m so sorry for you.

It is possible this is not the first time he has done this but that is something you may never find out. But just like the drunk driver theory — they are never arrested the first time they drive drunk — your H got careless this time and you found out.

He may have been more careful prior to this and was able to get away with it.

And you are right - this girl is still a child.

I hope you consider a counselor just for you. You need to get support for this b/c you are bordering on your H being shady, a liar, and perhaps even worse than that.

Thank you, that message must have been really hard for you to read! It does hurt deeply when you hear another person saying the things that he used to make you feel.

Do most people lie when they get caught? I have caught him telling small lies over the time of our relationship.

I have a huge worry in my head now as he says to me he didn’t think about her age at all but he was calling her a child to her face and to the other men in the group! When I found the messages one of the things he said to me was "don’t worry I wouldn’t be talking to a child" which makes me think he was aware of her age.

He does seem incredibly remorseful and upset that he has hurt me, he is trying hard to make things right and I believe he loves me. He did say last night that it wouldn’t be fair for my family to hold a grudge over him for what he has done as it’s none of their business.

All people lie. It’s part of being human.. In fact, I read that the only really honest man had no one that loved him because true honesty is painful for the recipient. Here’s where it gets tricky. Little lies over the course of a month that make no sense should be looked at askance. In fact, you need to ask yourself why he’s lying about things that don’t matter. One of the things that bothers me about those kinds of lies is what else he’s doing that’s shady. It’s how you feel when he does it. Once you marry the person, they should be able to trust your word and you should be able to trust theirs. If you can’t, you have a very shakey relationship.
The fact that he came on so strong with a girl who has a boyfriend says a lot about him, not you and not her. She’s probably flattered than an older man is paying attention to her. I don’t know how to say this except say it…your husband is a predator. I don’t mean that he is going to physically harm her but what is he up to? He knows you know 90% and yet still plays mind games
I wish I had better news, but I don’t think he’s a good guy. I think he’s got you snowed. I think he’s got her snowed and I think he has been getting away with this kind of behavior most of his life.
I’m a social worker and I have dealt with every kind of person and they all lie to me. It’s part of the territory. It’s just part of the job. I have to be capable of reading between the lines because many of these people I take to court. I have to be able to raise my hand and swear to a judge that I’m telling the truth the whole truth. I’ve sat in court and listen to people lie to the judge about something I just testified to. Most judges, just sit there and listen and then make a decision. Sometimes, very seldom, but sometimes, they go against our agency, but most of the time, since I know what I’m doing, I’m not gonna take a case to court unless I cannot only prove it, but I’m dealing with a risk dangerous enough to a child to get in front of a judge.
Please understand that I’m not telling you to leave this marriage, but I do think you need to get to a therapist who handles this kind of excuse making and lying that he does because this looks like it’s going to be your life with him. I wish you well..

EA’s can be strange in so many ways.
For one, people can sort-of slip into them. A bit like entering a hot jacuzzi where you gradually get into hot water. Before you know, you are submerged without being so aware of the heat.
They can be one-sided. Like in this instance, it sounds like it was more your husband having an affair with her, rather than her seeing it as anything more than banter between her boyfriends friend and her. I wonder if she’s shared the messages with her boyfriend and what he thought of their contact.

If your husband is remorseful and if the two of you want to remain married, then the best suggestion I can make is this:
Order the book Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass. It’s a bit dated, but still the go-to book where you two can read together, discuss, do the exercises, and better understand what an EA is, and where this particular one might rate on that journey.
Other than that, use this opportunity for BOTH of you to discus borders and fences. Like… you don’t want him to be talking this way to women, that conversations are generally shared, be clear if both of you expect fidelity and monogamy, what about porn, what if a stranger asks you to dance, what about flirting… Basically make both your expectations to each other – and to yourself – clear.

The thing is at the same time his affair was going on I also had one of my friends husbands try to privately talk to me and even repeatedly call me whilst his wife was on the school run! I told my husband immediately and we almost laughed about it and I said how I wouldn’t cross those boundaries and I wouldn’t expect him to cross those either. But he still did and he was doing at the exact time I didn’t entertain and shut down private conversations with someone else.

He still tells me now that he didn’t realise what he was doing was wrong even through everything I said whilst it was going on.

He still tells me now that he didn’t realise what he was doing was wrong even through everything I said whilst it was going on.

If he was hiding it and lying about it, he knew it was wrong.

It’s definitely an affair yes, and so sorry this happened to you. The fact that it’s someone so young too , it would be hard not to change my opinion about my partner if I knew he was interested in sleeping with women that young. I would investigate all of his accounts etc ; there could be way more that you don’t know about. If he doesn’t want you to look through anything , he’s not a candidate for reconciliation. It sounds like he’s " playing dumb " honestly and not taking responsibility at all. Please put up some
Boundaries with him and don’t continue as if everything is fine- that just shows him that there’s no consequences for his actions . He must show remorse and he must get IC .

Also ; it makes me mad that he tries to tell you that it’s not fair for someone to hold a grudge against him about it. It is not up to him who you tell about his actions or how they feel about him afterward. He should have thought about that when he was having an affair . I’m sorry but it does not seem like he is remorseful actually at all. In what ways is he trying to make everything better ?

A bit concerned about the company you keep…
If the group of friends is of the same age-group and one of them has a 19 year old girl-friend… Nothing illegal but there is a big difference in maturity from 19 to +30.
A friend’s husband hits on you…

I’m no prude, but wife and I realized that with time things change. We take holidays together, we do fewer "party" like events, because we can’t sacrifice Saturday or Sunday to a hangover. Won’t catch either Mr or Mrs Bigger shaking their moneymaker at some club at four in the morning…

This would be a great time for the two of you to talk about what sort of marriage and future you want.

I have nothing to do with his group of male friends, they are all late 20s and in their 30s apart from the one boy who is 19 and his girlfriend who is 19. The husband of my friend who tried repeatedly contacting me isn’t part of that group! She is just a school mum friend of mine.

So asking a 19 year old for pics of her in her underwear is just step one to nudes and who knows. You know why he wanted those pics. And it wasn’t to put in his scrapbook….

Does the boyfriend know? I would blow that up.

Your WS is minimizing and denying and hoping to give you the bare minimum and make himself look less bad. It’s typical cheater behavior.
And that it wasn’t a PA sounds like a matter of time.

Please consider IC for you so you can figure out what you want. And I agree that he should read the "not just friends" book by Shirley Glass. And he really needs to figure out why he would risk his marriage for some ego kibbles from a barely adult girl. And the girlfriend of a friend- I mean that’s not good behavior toward your friend, either.

And yeah, the age difference gives me the ick too, even if it is legal. Age differences are okay, but she’s just barely an adult. That is creepy.

All people lie. It’s part of being human.. In fact, I read that the only really honest man had no one that loved him because true honesty is painful for the recipient.

Then I really must have missed something precious.

The only "lies" I concede are on the level of Santa Claus and the tooth fairy, or telling the beloved dog that died ran away and can’t be found, to my little child. As soon as she grows up, she is getting gradually the truth about those stories.

I get the part about preventing pain, but there is no excuse when you lie about pain you created, then it is truly different.

Op, yes it is an affair, call it emotional if you wish, but what I see is a cheater who was trying to create a s challenge situation with an available affair partner.

BFTS, everyone lies. It starts early. "Did you break the lamp?". "No, the dog did it." The kind of lies it sounds like he tells are useless and worthless.. The OP has picked up on it.

I read an article by a reporter who heard about a man who would not lie. After he interviewed him he decide to tell only the truth and lasted a week. His whole family was furious with him.

Yes it is fear of consequences and lack of accountability. Perfectly normal in children as learning what not to do.

When you mature it gets bad though, every lie = lack of accountability (best case scenario) or can degenerate into Malicious Intent.

Lack of accountability is bad and there are shades of bad, white lies like "I didn’t buy anything for your birthday " are a thing, different from lies hiding missed duties and so on.

It is escapism and avoidance most often than not.

The truth hurts sometimes but it is also worthy to say instead of lies in most cases. When you have to lie I rather say "I am not telling you" openly to a person when that’s not a trivial thing.